My First Interview…Let’s Rant #25 — A MGTOW Interview

I just finished a recording where I cover some of the topics that I thought needed some additional coverage in an audio post and that I either felt I didn’t address properly or I missed/didn’t think to mention during this interview

I had to do some meditation on this interview after the fact, and once I post up My Thoughts on The Ranthony Interview, you’ll notice that I mention asking. That asking is me asking a question putting it out to the universe and getting the answer that I got. When I do this, or when anyone does this I always keep in mind that the answer I get is the answer I get. I’ll admit that in many cases the answer I get back via this meditation process isn’t always pleasant. In many cases, it’s like having to take yet another Red Pill. The information gained from such a process has always been enlightening about the issue or me in some form or another.

This is what I came up with



Straight up Angry MGTOW’s content never really appealed to me. That’s not to mean that I disliked or hated the guy, what I mean is that for me personally his content just wasn’t where I’m at in my life. Not only that his presentation and voice made it really hard for me to sit and watch his videos for more than a few minutes.

And then there’s his actual content

Seriously? Blaire White and ShoeOnHead Feminists? That must either be intentional click bait, or Angry MGTOW isn’t in touch with reality. What I also noticed is that anyone, and I do mean anyone that needed proof that all MGTOW were unhinged, Angry MGTOW was the go-to guy. Occasionally you’d see someone try and twist Sandman’s content around, usually that required cherry picking to make it happen.

I was asked what I was going to do about Angry MGTOW. And what was I going to do about Angry MGTOW? After my meditation, I came up with the answer of, Nothing!

Now that may sound unsatisfactory to the critics of MGTOW, allow me to explain. First of all, I’m responsible for myself and my own actions. I don’t subscribe to him, watch him or endorse him in any way. He occasionally, and do mean occasionally comes up with a compelling point, you have to sift through a lot of content to find it. I Haven’t got the time or inclination to do that. So in my case, my conscience is quite clear

Second MGTOW isn’t an organization like The Borg


MGTOW is a collection of men going along on an individual path. Yes, there are factions inside MGTOW, and some are insane some are quite sane. Beyond the principal of anti gynocentrism and a marriage strike there are few things that all MGTOW will agree on. Therefore it’s impractical and almost impossible for me or any other MGTOW on YouTube to do anything beyond saying that they limit their association with Angry MGTOW. Here’s the ultimate crux of the problem even if Angry MGTOW were to go away (Die, Stop making videos, Quit, Disappear, etc. )  There would simply be another guy like Angry MGTOW that would step into his place. So whether you like him or not he’s here! And there is a faction inside MGTOW that his rhetoric appeals to. I personally don’t associate with him, and that’s really all anyone can do.

What can be done? The MGTOW that have been through the Red Pill Rage and come out the other side. There’s a need for us to be there to help the increasing number of men that are taking the Red Pill themselves and help them through the Purple Pill phase as best we can. Some will get stuck in the Red Pill Rage, and there’s very little I or anyone else can do if a man decides to stay there. Setting this up and encouraging this will require fortitude, there are entirely too many men out there that feel that any kind of emotional expression will make him a crybaby and will treat any other man around them that does so in a harsh manner. None the less I think this needs to be done.

The Comparison to Feminism

Answering this one was pretty easy for me.

It got pointed out to me that the structure of MGTOW is very similar to the structure of Feminism. In structure MGTOW, and Feminism looks the same. The answer here is in actions, A herd of Antelope and a herd of Elephants are both herds. These mammals though are two separate species they may both socialize in herds, but they act differently. This is where the argument that MGTOW is like Feminism falls apart. Yes, a herd is a herd, but herds of different animals act and behave differently despite the fact they both herd together. MGTOW actions have in very few even come close to the actions of what Feminists have done. The extreme factions are always mentioned, the extreme though isn’t the norm, unlike Feminism the extreme factions are not the ones dictating the herd.

I will admit that this comparison has caused me to re-evaluate feminism. It’s become even more clear to me now that Feminism not only won’t clean up its house, but they can’t. For them to do so would require a conscious, consistent long-term effort. It would also require the majority of feminism to actively support or jump on board with such an effort for it to work. Given the current situation that feminism is in at the moment, such an effort is very unlikely. What’s more like, and when I mean more I mean 99% likely to happen. Is that feminism will have to self-destruct and then need to rebuild itself from the ashes. By that time the whole concept of the role of women in society and what’s going on with them will probably be very different from what it is now.

This also serves as a warning to MGTOW and also to the MRM! We as a group cannot allow ourselves to fall into the same trap that feminism is now in. It’s critical that manosphere be about healing and rebuilding of men and not about revenge. It’s also clear from this interview that like Feminism both MGTOW and The MRM will likely also reach a period of redundancy in the west, assuming, of course, humanity doesn’t destroy itself.

Wasps and Bees also have a similar structure, and everyone agrees they’re not the same species, same situation here.

Blue Pill Alphas

If you go into the comments section of the Ranthony video, you’ll find a prime example of blue pill alpha. These are men that are doing well according to the selections that they’re aware. These men would be considered winners by societies standards today. They’ve played the game, played it well and in some rare cases are even thriving.

I reblogged this from The Rational Male, and it explains these guys better than I can here. Suffice to say though in the case of the guy I was dealing with he had a major dependence on external versus internal validation.

I’d have to say at this point in time, these men are as big a threat, if not bigger than anything Feminism can throw at MGTOW at the moment. I did another blog recently about how Feminism is clearly starting to hit the ditch. They simply don’t have the resources either financially or culturally at this time to go into a full-on assault against MGTOW. Blue Pill Males and in particular Blue Pill Alphas do though. There is a basis for them doing so too. Imagine you’ve spent most of your life playing the game, fighting to get to the top of the heap, only to discover that not only was it not the top, but there were MGTOW able to ascend those heights that someone like Mr. Blue Pill Male could only dream of WITHOUT the brutal struggle. That’s not to say that the voyage for MGTOW is easy, the end of the process though delivers freedom that no Blue Piller, Not even a President, Prime Minister or King can have. This invalidates their whole struggle, this also explains why MGTOW have a tendency to want to hide their faces. Our process and struggle is very frightening to a blue pill alpha. Someone like the one I dealt with has to insult someone like me because it’s only in invalidating my effort that he can maintain his effort.

This anger and fear will grow as MGTOW continues to get larger and the effects start to have a real effect on the system as a whole. Specifically, in inoculating men against Gynocentrism these men will be compelled to do more than laughing at us and insulting us, THAT will be when the real fight begins. These men have a vested interest in keeping things the way they are, MGTOW are once they’ve completed the Red Pill Rage above and beyond that model.

This is where staying under the radar helps. At some point, there will be a face or two put on MGTOW until then though remaining a faceless mist is the best approach to people like this. That doesn’t mean I’m going to lie down and allow some ignorant fuck to step on my toes. I’ve worked hard to get past my personal red pill rage but also to self-actualize and self-validate.

Until then no Blue Pill asshole will tell me what I do with my life.

So in review, I’d say this interview was passable, Sandman does a much better job selling MGTOW than I can. I wasn’t seeking to convert anyone that’s not my style, my style is telling people what MGTOW has done for me. That’s really all that I can do



You Must Accept One Simple (And Hard) Fact

A guy posted this up on The Red Pill Nation group on Facebook. I thought it was pretty profound and I encourage anyone who’s MGTOW or considering going that route to read what this guy posted.

Here it is in an edited for grammar form, Written by IceHeart Phoenix  January 3, 2017

I’ve been MGTOW for a few months now and in that time I’ve come to realize something. Before you can accept the MGTOW path and truly begin your solo journey of self-discovery you must accept one simple (yet hard) fact. And that is…
You are irrelevant!
(Like I said, it’s simple yet hard to grasp and accept.)
With or without you, society moves on. With or without you, women still have about a 100 blue-pillers at their beck and call to serve at their every whim. With or without you, women still remain to be same as they’ve always been. Women don’t need you they don’t miss you are just a ghost that was at the fringes of her mind and soon as you woke up and took the red pill, ten other blue-pillers took your place, and you ceased to exist to her! You are irrelevant, Unknown! While you were present, your presence was ignored, and now that you’re gone, your absence is barely noticed.
(Harsh, I know. But part of being a red-piller is being able to accept the harsh truth for what it is.)
I see a lot of posts in this and other MGTOW groups from some of my MGTOW brothers, and the thought I read behind them is something along the lines of…
“I’m gone now, Take that bitches.”
Sometimes they make me laugh, at others, they make me arch an eyebrow, and at others it just makes me shake my head sadly. Because the sad truth is No, they are not taking anything. They never cared for you to begin with they are certainly not going to start caring now that you’re gone. The minute you walked away, they did too, on to the next blue-piller they could manipulate into doing their bidding.
I guess for some it’s a way of trying to work through the feelings of rejection or trying to validate yourself by trying to convince yourself that you matter to them, but the simple (yet once again hard) fact of the matter is that, YOU DON’T!
I’m not saying any of this to be mean or derisive to anyone, I have no quarrel with anyone, to begin with. And to be honest, I had a hard time accepting this fact myself. I just believe that the easiest way to move on and truly start your journey is to just stop being hung up on them.
Stop obsessively pointing out their errors, Stop trying to find examples of instances where they’ve blundered or suffered some form of misery. Stop trying to validate yourself via (click-bait) posts on the net of their drama and issues. Because while you are still doing all that, you are still lost and trapped in their net and web of well-fabricated lies.
The only way to truly win this fight is to simply not fight all together!
(Now, I’m fully and perfectly aware that one of the central tenets of MGTOW is that “you can’t define what MGTOW is for any other man apart from yourself.” So no, I’m not trying to define how to be MGTOW to anyone. I’m just sharing my two cents of something that’s been boggling my mind for quite a while now)

This is the link to my Facebook Group

My YouTube Channel

What does the Red Pill mean to me?

Bear with me for a second here please, because I’m about to do something that Feminists do all the time. And quote a dictionary posting about Red Pill the same way that Feminists use the dictionary to refer to Feminism. There are four definitions there, but this is the one that applies best to me

“This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill: the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill: you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.” – Morpheus, The Matrix

‘Red pill’ has become a popular phrase among cyberculture and signifies a free-thinking attitude, and a waking up from a “normal” life of sloth and ignorance. Red pills prefer the truth, no matter how gritty and painful it may be.

“I took the red pill.”

My awakening wasn’t just around Feminism it was also around the bigger picture. Namely the government, environment, economy, etc. It DOES NOT mean that the misogyny fairy came down and gave a smack on the head and turned me into a woman hater. It also doesn’t mean that I suddenly started buying into and believing every single conspiracy theory that comes down the pipe. Nor does it mean I share the same opinion with every single other Red Pill person out there. I’ve taken it from both sides here, some have accused me of not being Red Pill enough, others see the title of my blog and simply stop reading right there.

So let me make this simple for you! My version of the Red Pill awakening isn’t going to be the same as everyone else’s. Nor was any other person that has taken the Red Pill had the same realization of everyone else.

My first real awakening came when I did my three changes for the Sterling Institute of Relationship weekend. It was a shocker, and I got mad about how badly I’d been deceived. There had been some other things that had set the foundation for me though. For instance, if you want to learn about how propaganda works “Manufacturing Consent” by Noam Chomsky is an absolute must read. Got a problem with his political leanings that’s your problem, not mine.

Manufacturing Consent

Understanding how propaganda models work and how we’re influenced by them, and by the people around me, THAT was my Red Pill Moment.

Feminism wasn’t even in the picture when this happened to me. The process that made me an MRA/MGTOW wasn’t one big event that caused me to see the light. I read this book did the Sterling Weekend and simply let events play themselves out around me as confirmation. Part of that confirmation was men in the Sterling Fellowship pointing a few things out to me. Specifically about how much Misandry is in the Feminist movement. It wasn’t the open man haters that convinced me. Those women are easy to find, and in an odd way they’re a relief to deal with. You know where you stand with them and how they’ll react to you. No, it wasn’t the open misandrists that changed my mind, it was the orbiters!

Who are these women? These are women that hate men as much if not more than the open Misandrists in the feminist movement. But because of circumstance or mentality either can’t admit or won’t admit nor even come to the realization that they hate men. This group is as large if not larger than the group of open Misandrists in Feminism based on my personal experience. And while they’re not the majority they represent a large enough percentage of Feminism to dictate the direction of Feminism. And it’s also this group and not the open Misandrists that will likely be the eventual downfall of feminism.

The process of taking the Red Pill for me is similar to that a person has to deal with via grieving. This is broken down into five steps; they are

1. Denial

This hit HARD for me! It came a couple of months after a breakup where I hadn’t moved past the anger stage. It was the realization that even a little kid I’d been programmed from day one to be separated from my maleness. The very women that raised me had taught me to be afraid of my own maleness. There had been glimmers that had shone in from time to time. But when the light got turned on and I saw what had happened? Let’s just say I moved on to step 2 pretty fast! Although in my case, my reaction was more similar to the ‘Construct’ scene from the Matrix, as opposed to the actual taking of the red pill.

Other men don’t move past this as quickly as I did. Getting this revealed to you is a major shakeup to a person’s belief system.

In our case though once taken the pill cannot be untaken. It also makes spotting fakes and imposters very easy. You either know this about yourself and the world or you don’t, it’s very hard to fake an experience like this. It does lead to step 2 eventually.

2. Anger

Oh yeah, I spent a while here! I was already angry as fuck over a breakup I had. This anger had burned away a piece of mental and emotional programming. I no longer had the capacity to bury or deny the situation in my mind. This situation extended well beyond just relationships, it was about my life in general. Where I was going, what I had done, what I was going to do if I stayed on this path I was on. Which, to be honest, was going to nowhere but mediocrity and going there fast! There had to be more? I was seeing others doing more and why couldn’t I do the same. This was frustration on top of disappointment, and I was taking it out on anyone and everyone around me. I had to leave the town I was living in at the time because if I stayed someone was going to get hurt, or I was going to get hurt. I needed a new start, and I got one. I got the space and time to process my anger and to start looking for solutions. At this time of my life though I was a very frightening and scary person.

Anger is a very strong emotion, it means that something has violated you physically, mentally or emotionally, and you need to do something about it. It’s also an emotion that when dealt with properly, burns out quickly. And it does need to be dealt with. Unfortunately, some people never get past this step.

3. Bargaining

As much as there was in my life I hadn’t done. I had still managed to do a few things right. I had kept a clean criminal record despite putting myself in some very toxic places and associating with some very toxic people. I had also managed to remain clean and sober through it all too. There had also been some pretty decent moments and happy phases as well. These though were just moments or periods and to become the person I needed to be. I had to confront the remaining demons from my childhood, to realize that I still had more than a little growing up to do. I missed the easy simplicity of what I had before on occasion, mostly because it was all so easy to live there and stay there. Is it any wonder that Cypher wanted back in without the memories?

There are some out there that look at their ‘before time’ with a bit of nostalgia. Oddly enough this a period when many addicts in treatment will go back out. Convincing themselves that it wasn’t that bad only to return and have it get much worse, because this time they know.

4. Depression

I also moved through this part pretty quickly. Yes, I was sorry about what I bought into. I wanted just to be left alone for a while. The people that were around me didn’t allow me to linger in this space for long. They pointed out to me that I was still pretty young (I had just turned 30 at this time) I had more than enough time to turn things around. I was more shocked and dismayed at my ignorance and naivete than anything else. I did as much face-palming around the red pill as when I first got off drugs. In fact had I not already gone through a similar experience via the 12 Step Program I likely wouldn’t have made it through this phase.

It’s easy for a person to feel sorry for themselves here. We’ve been duped, misled, lied to, deceived.In my case it was the people that had also saved me from addiction to boot. We bought into the society around us hook, line and sinker. For most of us it wasn’t even a choice, we were not aware that the option out there even existed. I was for instance MGTOW long before the term even existed I had gone that path without even knowing it was a path! I often wonder how many more like me are out there?

5  Acceptance

I came to the realization that this was what the reality was. I wasn’t perfect, but I’d also made more smart choices than I gave myself credit for. I would term this as the fully awake phase. I became aware of the social dynamics around and began slowly but surely to apply this awareness to the situations and people around me. This process is ongoing and is also a very personal one and for each man on his path this path is going to be different. Not only that but each man that’s taken the Red Pill is at a different stage in their personal journey at all. And every single one of us has a different version of what taking the red pill means to them. NOBODY can define beyond themselves and a very simple definition above what the Red Pill is.

I’m awake, I know, and I’m free to walk my own path and form my opinions. Beyond that well you’ll have to judge for yourself.

So if you’re one of those people that just sees the title of my blog and doesn’t read the blog? Why did you comment then? I can’t and won’t answer for any other person calling themselves a red piller because quite frankly it’s none of my business. If you want to project that other person’s failings on to me though? That’s your problem, not mine.

Please keep this in mind when you see Red Pill next time.